"You Lie"

hawkfanjohn · Subject: Re: "You Lie" Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:05 pm

rainman1z wrote:

A word or two of spontaneous utterance doesn't seem a great offense in Brittish Parliament, and they have a few more years of experience than our "leadership" ...

Just another case of "If you don't like the message, punish the messenger" ...

And the Taiwanese DO quite regularly have fistfights on the floor of congress, and occasionally the Koreans and the Japanese!

As far as I'm concerned the rules in place should be observed~ reguardless of what they are!!

And those that cannot follow Evil or Very Mad

Make the laws for your group ~ enforce those you make! Very Happy

carol · Subject: Re: "You Lie" Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:47 am

He already apologized for what he did, and I, IMHO, do not think he should have to do it again!!! Idea

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hawkfanjohn · Subject: Re: "You Lie" Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:44 pm

carol wrote:

He already apologized for what he did, and I, IMHO, do not think he should have to do it again!!! Idea

do not recall him apologizing to them that made and are to enforce the rules~ thems the ones ya gotsta keep happy~ the rest is kinda superficial....

except possibly them that voted him in~ thems the ones that really counts~ the rule makers an' the ones that put him in office!

silvrrose · Subject: Re: "You Lie" Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:18 am

He apologized to the President, who is comment was directed at. No other apologies are needed. When democrats called Bush a liar on the floor of the House or Senate (also against House and Senate rules) they were never sanctioned or raked across the coals like Wilson is being. And Obama called members in the House and Senate liars before Wilson made his statement. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

_________________
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy shit, what a ride!'"

hawkfanjohn · Subject: Re: "You Lie" Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:06 am

silvrrose wrote:

He apologized to the President, who is comment was directed at. No other apologies are needed. When democrats called Bush a liar on the floor of the House or Senate (also against House and Senate rules) they were never sanctioned or raked across the coals like Wilson is being. And Obama called members in the House and Senate liars before Wilson made his statement. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I'd love ta have ya post where Dems or anybunny else called Bush a liar in congress while Bush had the floor!! I'd like ta know cause heads will roll over it!

And if ya read I often stated ~~WHILE SUMBUNNY ELSE HAD THE FLOOR~ and again reinterate all he had ta do ta stay outa trouble was wait till speech was over~ then it woulda been HIS turn. K inda like takin' yer turn ta get on a highway by merging insteada pulling on right inta sumbunny else!!

hawkfanjohn · Subject: Re: "You Lie" Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:08 am

again~ apologizin' ta the president was nice but unnecissary~ appologizin' ta the congress is necessary but not nice!!

silvrrose · Subject: Re: "You Lie" Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:22 pm

hawkfanjohn wrote:

silvrrose wrote:

He apologized to the President, who is comment was directed at. No other apologies are needed. When democrats called Bush a liar on the floor of the House or Senate (also against House and Senate rules) they were never sanctioned or raked across the coals like Wilson is being. And Obama called members in the House and Senate liars before Wilson made his statement. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I'd love ta have ya post where Dems or anybunny else called Bush a liar in congress while Bush had the floor!! I'd like ta know cause heads will roll over it!

And if ya read I often stated ~~WHILE SUMBUNNY ELSE HAD THE FLOOR~ and again reinterate all he had ta do ta stay outa trouble was wait till speech was over~ then it woulda been HIS turn. K inda like takin' yer turn ta get on a highway by merging insteada pulling on right inta sumbunny else!!

It doesn't matter when they did it, it's against the Jefferson House Rules to call the standing president a liar on the floor of the House. Get all of those that called Bush a liar to apologize on the floor of the House and Wilson can follow suit then. Until then, Wilson shouldn't apologize one bit to the House or anyone else.

Under section 370 of the House Rules and Manual it has been held that a Member could:

refer to the government as “something hated, something oppressive.”
refer to the President as “using legislative or judicial pork.”
refer to a Presidential message as a “disgrace to the country.”
refer to unnamed officials as “our half-baked nitwits handling foreign affairs.”

Likewise, it has been held that a member could not:

call the President a “liar.”
call the President a “hypocrite.”
describe the President’s veto of a bill as “cowardly.”
charge that the President has been “intellectually dishonest.”
refer to the President as “giving aid and comfort to the enemy.”
refer to alleged “sexual misconduct on the President’s part.”

_________________
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy shit, what a ride!'"

hawkfanjohn · Subject: Re: "You Lie" Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:48 pm

next time I merge onta the freeway get ta close my eyes an go~ if I hit sumbunny I appologise ta the guy I hit~ an' I'm off free~ tell the police "I apologized. No traffic fine or anythin' Rose says I don't owe ya a thing!!

silvrrose · Subject: Re: "You Lie" Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:13 pm

hawkfanjohn wrote:

next time I merge onta the freeway get ta close my eyes an go~ if I hit sumbunny I appologise ta the guy I hit~ an' I'm off free~ tell the police "I apologized. No traffic fine or anythin' Rose says I don't owe ya a thing!!

That's just being ridiculous and you know it. If that's your argument, though, explain to me how merging onto the highway, hitting another person's vehicle, causing property damage and, possibly, personal injury, not to mention the several other people you placed at risk by blatantly disregarding the rules of law (by the way, calling the president a liar is not against the LAW it's against the code of conduct in the House) not to mention common sense, is in anyway similar to calling the President a liar in front of Congress while he's talking?

_________________
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy shit, what a ride!'"

hawkfanjohn · Subject: Re: "You Lie" Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:14 pm

but you said that the guy owes nothing to the people who put the rules in place~ therefore any rules set in place by onyone for any reason can be dismissed .The way you stated it I can just say I'm sorry to anyone I've possibly offended~ therefore I can shoot someone dead~ say I'm sorry and walk out free!

Either rules are to be respected or not!!

If you constantly speed or break a law you show your daughter that rules DO NOT apply~ and she is free to do whatever she would like.

She will remember your example when she becomes a teenager. Do as I say not as I do just doesn't work!

Again~ the only ones he owed an apology to are the ones he didn't apologise to~ the ones who's rules he broke!

hawkfanjohn · Subject: Re: "You Lie" Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:16 pm

As you say its against the rules of conduct in the house~ and that is who he must answer to!

silvrrose · Subject: Re: "You Lie" Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:22 pm

hawkfanjohn wrote:

but you said that the guy owes nothing to the people who put the rules in place~ therefore any rules set in place by onyone for any reason can be dismissed .The way you stated it I can just say I'm sorry to anyone I've possibly offended~ therefore I can shoot someone dead~ say I'm sorry and walk out free!

Either rules are to be respected or not!!

If you constantly speed or break a law you show your daughter that rules DO NOT apply~ and she is free to do whatever she would like.

She will remember your example when she becomes a teenager. Do as I say not as I do just doesn't work!

Again~ the only ones he owed an apology to are the ones he didn't apologise to~ the ones who's rules he broke!

But, since the others were not held to the same standards and not forced to apologize on the floor, why him? They broke the same rule and, unlike the others who have done it, he apologized to the president after the fact, so why should he apologize again when those before him never had? What makes his case so special? He broke the exact same rule.

_________________
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy shit, what a ride!'"

hawkfanjohn · Subject: Re: "You Lie" Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:30 am

and just what rules did the others break? Ya keep sayin' that but absolutely nuthun can be found!

Yer own post of what is allowed and what is not shows he is out of line!!

Again~ hisses and boos allowed~ comments while others hold the floor are not!

standards were always upheld before~ or were censured~ same here!

old-n-slow · Subject: Re: "You Lie" Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:13 pm

Listen to the hecklers, there is a lot more here than just boos and hisses.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/09/10/flashback_democrats_boo_bush_at_2005_state_of_the_union.html

The real point is, it doesn't matter what was said to either president, the impropriety is that anything was said while the president held the floor. So yes, all parties should be made to apologize to the house for their actions for breach of conduct, or none should. Since it was not done in '05, there's no reason to do it in 09 simply because the administration has changed. And don't give me the "new admin, new rules BS, because the sergeant-at-arms is the one to make the call at the moment it happens, per Robert's Rules of Order. The House came back with this wretched idea to waste more time after Wilson and Obama settled it. The House can now go shit in its hat.